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Thread: How do you untrain an indoor dog?

  1. #1

    Default How do you untrain an indoor dog?

    So it appears that I was lucky for a couple of days, with Katie weeing outdoors.

    In her previous life, the elderly couple had puppy pads in the hallway with the whole flat laid to quarry tiles. When I took Lexie in to meet Katie, Katie was absolutely fine with Lexie until Lexie wandered near to Katie's puppy pad - at which point she started growling and putting her paws on Lexie's back. As soon as Lexie moved away Katie was quiet and wagging her tail again.

    On Monday despite 2 stops on the way back from Scarborough and 2 trips around the garden, Katie wee'd in the house. I put this down to nerves and upset.

    From Monday Katie is inour routine of a walk at 7 am and again around 7 pm. These walks last around 15 to 20 minutes.

    Tuesday and Wednesday Katie seemed to do small wee's on the garden path or when out on a walk, and I thought we were getting somewhere. But thinking back they were very small wee's

    Thursday she didn't go until the middle of the afternoon, on the hall carpet. She then went again on the bedroom carpet at some time between 2 and 6 am Friday. I managed to get a tiny bit out of her for the vet appointment, by walking round and round.

    As Katie hadn't gone again by bedtime on Friday night, I put a bit of puppy pad under the astro turf and left her out there for 20 to 30 minutes. She refused to go, so I put her bed in the hallway. I got woken at around 4 am to the sound of claws going round and round on the flooring, and got to the door just in time to see her finishing off creating a big puddle on the vinyl which smells.

    Saturday (today) I've removed the astro turf as all Katie wanted to do was lay on it and sunbath. We've had the usual 2 walks and she's been in the garden many times whilst I was working out there, and she's not even tried to wee. I even put a couple of strips of puppy pad under the slate chippings to encourage her. She's spent most of tonight on the settee sleeping, like Lexie has. I popped to the loo, and returned to find a massive puddle on the kitchen floor which smells.

    I don't understand why she is holding it in and not going when out.

    How can I get her to go wee properly to empty her bladder whenever she is out side?

    DSCF9887-Katie-Sat-on-plastic-grass-Apr-2-2016.jpg DSCF9894-Garden-widen-chippings-toilet-Apr-2-2016.jpg
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    Mark, and my Blen - Lexie DOB 7/07/11, and my B/T - Katie DOB 01/12/12

  2. #2

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    Got up at 7 and put the dogs out. Within a minute of being outside, Katie has a wee on the patio. So maybe we just had a glitch.
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    Mark, and my Blen - Lexie DOB 7/07/11, and my B/T - Katie DOB 01/12/12

  3. #3
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    Mark it's going to be a longer job and a bit like training an ex-breeder. Regular hourly visits to the garden with huge verbal and treat rewards after a wee and ignoring the accidents wherever they may happen. It is very early days yet for her. It takes me about a month to totally train a new one of mine and even then sometimes the odd accident may happen but it gets ignored and the next wee outside gets the praise and reward. Little tiny wees may also be scenting/marking as you now have a new bitch in the house and this happens with un-neutered bitches or not. When a new girl comes here and after her first wee the rest will 99% of the time wee on top or around the same spot. I never let them have their first entry in to the house until they have had that first wee outside and the others have introduced themselves and only then will she enter the house and after the resident girls, it takes about an hour if all goes well. There are no privileges for a long time like a nap on the sofa or cuddle on the bed and the new girl gets fed last. I always start out using a crate at night for a good month and I have never had a wet crate in the morning so that huge wee first thing always happens with a big treat to follow. I think some of what is going on with the growling is the two girls sorting their pecking order so you should step in now because it is you that sets that order. Don't be soft on the new girl be firm and kind as I believe that a multiple group of dogs need and behave much better when boundaries are set.

    Good luck and enjoy her she looks really lovely.

    Alison.

  4. #4
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    I agree with most of what Alison advises, except that in my home there has always been a distinction between dominant and subservient dogs or bitches. In the wild the most dominant in the pack will take first place in all things, especially feeding, in that the pack leader will always have the first choice of eating whatever prey has been caught, irrespective of which dog(s) have killed or found it.

    I have always made the distinction between dog or pack business and what should concern me as the human in the human over dog scenario and allowed whatever change in pack order to be disputed and argued over until the most dominant is consistently deferred to by the other dogs. I have always believed that I should not intervene in any disputes between the dogs unless and until the safety of one or other of them has been threatened, which I think has only happened once in over 30 years of having a multi-dog household.

    Mark, I do not think you should intervene when Lexie and Katie growl at each other, or the other way round. They are sorting out the pack order and it could well be that, although she is the newcomer, Katie will assume the dominant position. IMHO the more you tend to intervene in 'dog business' the more unsettled the two bitches will be. I think whichever is the more dominant of the two will succeed in heading the pack, whether you like it or not. I have always found the other dogs step into line quite happily once the order of the pack has been established.

    Once order has been sorted out I give preference in all things to the pack leader, i.e. meals and treats. If you walk both together you are likely to find that whoever has become pack leader will insist on walking one step ahead of the other. Have you noticed this already?

    From Katie's point of view, she has had the ground pulled from under her paws by being rehomed with you. Everywhere she goes is different to what she has been used to, all the smells are different and the way you and Lexie do things is also different to what she has been used to in the past. As Alison says, it will take time and patience to help her to feel secure and happy in her new surroundings.
    Warmest wishes
    Flo

  5. #5

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    Poor Lexie, had a cat thrust upon her, her pillow (Alfie) died on her and then several hours sharing a car trip in the same carrier as a strange dog.

    Katie's last growl was at Chili when she jumped up on the settee on Friday lunchtime, which scattered all three of them. I've told Katie off every time that she's growled at Lexie or Chili.

    This morning Katie has happily gone up to chili and sniffed her, and I think the growling era has now finished.

    With regards to walking. Katie came wearing a harness, and had 3 other ones in her bag of bits. She was clearly used to doing her own thing and walking in her or the other cavalier's chosen direction, which is why they had the owner down the stairs and number of times and into hospital twice. Katie on a harness spent most of her time up on her hind legs and she tried to lead the way.

    I've got her on a collar and lead, and by yesterday her pulling has pretty much stopped. Yes, we've done a tiny bit of repeatedly changing direction, but not that much. When I walked Alfie and Lexie, they would take it in turns to lead dependant on how much Alfie was sniffing the bushes. If Alfie was hungry in the morning then he would always lead the last leg home for food.

    Since Katie arrived, Lexie has been trailing behind us, partially due to just how much Katie was wandering all over the place from side to side. Things are greatly improved on that front from when she arrived on Monday

    DSCF9730-Alfie-poorly-heart-Mar-15-2016.jpg DSCF1952.jpg DSCF5866-Alfie-Lexie-sat-on-each-other-Jan-30-2015.jpg and it was Katie who laid against Lexie, so that must be a good sign DSCF9880-Lexie-Chili-Katie-5-days-Apr-2-2016.jpg
    Last edited by Mark Ellis; 04-03-2016 at 08:33 AM.
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    Mark, and my Blen - Lexie DOB 7/07/11, and my B/T - Katie DOB 01/12/12

  6. #6

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    I too am pretty sure it's a mixture of dominance and getting used to new surroundings. Katie probably just needs a little time and patience.

    When I brought Goldi home from Sweden she had been with me for a few days at her old house, then alone with me for a train journey, night in a hotel, plane, another train and a car. She did a wee before she came in the house, as she had refused when I took her on the grass at Charles de Gaulle airport, so had been a loooong time. She was about four or five months old because France now insists on rabies vaccine for a dog entering the country even if coming from somewhere like Sweden that has been rabies free for a century!!!! Off topic....... Anyway, she was clearly NOT impressed to find there were other Cavaliers and a Ridgeback! I think she growled at all the Cavaliers, dogs and bitches alike, who tried to upend her to smell her, but was unsure about Tchi. I told her this was not Cavalier behaviour. I had a bed in the sitting room that was big enough for all the dogs to get in - well, we know Cavaliers, give them three beds and they'll all pile into one. Before I went to bed I noticed that Hazel in particular had tried to be friendly with her and Goldi was responding, so thought "Good". Next morning all the adults were on the sofa and Goldi was alone on the floor: she wasn't big enough to jump on the sofa. For a few seconds I wondered why she wasnít in the bed, then smelt it: it was soaking. Fortunately I had tiled floors there too! Next night she was OK. I noticed that, in the way most bitches do, when one of the others weed she would do another on top, and so would leave her out until sheí done what I thought was enough to empty her bladder. She had been clean at home in Sweden, but then she was with the other girls there and was at the bottom of a different pack. When we were in the kitchen there I think I had every dog on my lap as well as Goldi, but she was last as she had to be lifted. The following night Goldi slept with all the other girls.

    Retrospectively, I think I should have put her in a crate overnight at first. When Tulsa and Raziela stayed in Sweden they slept in crates for a night or two: Hazel didnít but I donít remember why not.

    Fast forward to two years ago when Goldi was stolen. When I got her back she was very unsettled and I let her sleep in my room. The first morning I had a shower and when I came out she had weed in the middle of my bed! Luckily the duvet was on and I managed to get everything off before it had gone through to the mattress, and it was a light duvet that went in the washing machine. Even so, I was NOT impressed. Next night was OK, and after three nights she slept with the other girls again.

    Fast forward again to moving over here: I had been bringing the dogs over to get them acclimatised to the new garden and everything, so Goldi had been here, even if not spending the whole night. The first morning we were all here I let them out and then got their breakfast ready. When I called them, Goldi didn't come and I panicked for a second then did a proper search. I hadn't shut my bedroom door properly, and she'd pushed it open and again done a wee on my bed!

    I think it is some sort of marking, although it's usually the small wees that are marking, in the same way that dogs do

    I donít have any real dominance issues between any of the dogs. Tchi used to be boss but now she is aged she canít be bothered: she used to be quite harsh with the older Cavalier girls so I kept them apart but Rascally climbed in her bed the other day and Tchi just looked at her. From time to time Cedric and Vincent have a bit of an argument, by which I mean they growl and sometimes one will put a paw on the otherís back: they do it equally, and I DO say something, at which they go all apologetic and lick each otherísí faces. Easy doesnít join in this at all Ė heís too far down the pecking order.

    Goldi is pretty much the top bitch, but not very obviously as no-one challenges her. I did wonder how she would be when Bijou and Hula respectively had their puppies, but she was not particularly interested.

    It is usually the top bitch who has puppies, but that is something Goldi has not done. Despite the progesterone tests saying sheís at the right level and the dogs being very keen, her matings have resulted in nothing. I canít have another litter this year unless I register to be ďprofessionalĒ again, hardly worth it as I donít plan on having many more litters: I donít want to end up as a dotty old woman with too many dogs! Or maybe I am already. Goldi would be five and half before the next possible season, not sensible for a first litter. I think sheís made the choice anyway!

    She will growl if another tries to eat from her bowl, which none of the others do, and sometimes if I have one of the others on my lap will try to push between them. Last night I had three puppies and Hula at my side so Goldi simply lay on top of them!

    There were a few days when if I didnít catch a puppy in time and it weed in the house she would do a spot on top Ė but I did say something quite strong to her and she stopped doing it Ė apart from which the puppies are a lot better and I have few accidents.

    Jane

  7. #7

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    Katie's owner phoned today.

    The other cav is apparently now in kennels as it is peeing everywhere. I asked her if she had a specific word to get them to go wee when they were out, and she said that she never needed to as they always went if they needed to when out.

    The owner doesn't understand it as they never had a problem and the dogs never made a mess in the house. If they needed to go but the owners couldn't take them out because it was later or they were unwell then they simply told the relevant dog to "go on your mat", meaning puppy pad - which they had in the hallway. I explained to her that by her doing that, the dogs think that it is ok to go in the house - which is why they are weeing everywhere.

    I again asked her if she had a specific word to get them to go wee when they were out, and she said that she never needed to as they always went when out, or on the pad at home.

    So when I put Katie out for a wee, she has no idea of why I have put her there - so sits looking through the door because it is cold outside. She did wee when I let her out this morning at 7, but not tonight before or after tea. We haven't been for a walk tonight due to weather.

    Mark
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    Mark, and my Blen - Lexie DOB 7/07/11, and my B/T - Katie DOB 01/12/12

  8. #8

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    I think it's going to take a lot of time and patience. She has to unlearn a habit which had been acceptable, probably can't see why you don't like it, and has to learn what is acceptable for you. Luckily we know it IS possible to teach an older dog new tricks! You know the routine: tell her off if you catch her doing it in the wrong place, and praise her lots when in the right place.

    Jane

  9. #9

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    I have a concern now about her organs due to the once a day wee.

    When I got Katie she smelt, so gave her a bath (shampoo and rinse twice) and noted that her short fur was oily, slick. When she wee'd in the hall the other day I remembered that she came with a spray bottle of odour stuff. Turns out to be dog odour spray to spray on the fur to stop the dog smelling, so that has now gone in the bin. Her wee is really thick and smelly, and I'm putting that down to her just going once a day - and not always once in 24 hours.

    So the question is not only how do I get her to stop weeing indoors, but how do I get her to be interested in weeing at last twice a day - to get her system flushing?

    I've walked her all over grass that smells, and whilst she's sniffing small areas- she's not interested in weeing even 7 hours after her last wee. I've come home from work today,put her in the garden twice and she's still not interested 15 hours after her last wee
    Click this line to see Alfie's Picasa web photo albums

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    Mark, and my Blen - Lexie DOB 7/07/11, and my B/T - Katie DOB 01/12/12

  10. Default

    Mark, are you able to identify exactly how much water she drinks a day? Identify the colour of her urine? The urine of a dog will always smell, but usually stronger first thing in the morning (after a dry night) when it's usually slightly darker in colour due to having been stored. A 'fresh' pee won't smell as strongly and will be lighter in colour, but it shouldn't be thick as you describe it.

    Were I you, I think I would be looking to obtain a sample of her urine and take it and her to the vet. And in the meantime, I wouldn't feed her any kind of dry food, but always wet, which will help to get more fluid in to her system. It sounds to me as if she has either a UTI or a kidney infection.
    Sheena Stevens

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