Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Information required on PSOM

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Benoni, 32km east of Johannesburg, Tvl, South Africa
    Posts
    113

    Default Information required on PSOM

    I know that there were posts on this a couple of years back, but having viewed them I suspect that the owner of cavalierhealth.org which seems to be the most frequently googled, has their own agenda. So I would like to know of any experiences forum members have on this. The dog in question is six years old, son of my import. He has passed all his health tests (heart, MRI, eyes, hips & patellae, CC/DE & EF) with flying colours and now has this. The owner has been told that it is genetic and that he will definitely pass it on. Now I do know that it is found almost exclusively in Cavaliers, but I don't see that this necessarily makes it the "big bogey" of genetic, so much as a predisposition due to conformation. My vet, although not familiar with PSOM per se agrees. Could any forum members please give me their own personal experiences?

    Dorothy

  2. #2

    Default

    I'm afraid (or maybe not!) that I have no first or even second hand knowledge of this in dogs, but there is an article which seems fairly sensible

    http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advi...rles-span.html

    I have a bit of an issue with the owner being told it's genetic! It may be - but may not. Have you heard of others in the families of either parent who suffered from this?

    Jane

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Benoni, 32km east of Johannesburg, Tvl, South Africa
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Good evening Jane

    Thanks for your reply and the link - I will be forwarding it to Adele. No, Adele has not mentioned anything from the dam's breeder/owner who is a very close friend and neither have I heard anything from my boy's previous owner (one of his country of origin's top kennels, not only for showing but also for health). Hence again, my feeling that it is a predisposition rather than genetic. I have to say that I am planning to use this boy in my next mating and really don't feel that I am doing the wrong thing. In people it's called "glue ear", a colleague with four children had it in one and had never heard of it before, so there I would say definitely NOT genetic.


    Dorothy

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wiltshire. U.K
    Posts
    934

    Default

    Hello Dorothy,

    I would question if PSOM was of no significance regarding SM then why are scanning centres including these results with the MRI in the first place. If it was as simple as glue ear in children then surely it would be of no significance and therefore not needing to be noted.
    Chestergates include Dilated lateral ventricles & PSOM results within the screening scheme and say the results of these are incidental findings commonly occurring in association with the above, meaning the CM & SM results...so do we know yet if there is a connection with SM or not.
    PSOM can be very painful and show symptoms very similar to SM and more than often it requires an MRI for the correct diagnoses and again like SM the onset can be at any age.
    It's a difficult call for you, only you can make it.

    Alison.

  5. #5

    Default

    I think the comparison with 'glue ear' is pretty much for identification purposes only - it's not now believed to be the same thing. I've not experienced it in any of my dogs, so can't help from that point of view, and have forwarded the articles I have. I think the jury is still out on the mode of inheritance - as with so much else!
    Sheena Stevens

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Benoni, 32km east of Johannesburg, Tvl, South Africa
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Hello Alison

    I hear what you are saying, but I do still question it - I guess the jury is still out at the moment and if they can include these results which are picked up on the MRI scans so much the better - but that MAY be pretty much like they x-ray your leg when you break it and then say "Hey, guess what, you've got arthritis in that bone". Arthritis wasn't related to the trauma which broke it, but it was revealed during the diagnosis. Not saying the PSOM [B]ISN'T[B] related to SM, but I do believe we have to question things and I don't think any genuine researcher would object to that so long as we are then open to their subsequent considered opinion.

    Don't know if Murphy had another MRI (he was already graded A on the old system, don't know the grading on his subsequent one under the later system which includes CM) but the vet who did it (Dr Alain Carter) is the only one in South Africa who is qualified under Clare Rusbridge's regime to read and interpret the MRI's.

    I've had some helpful articles from "Janelise" and "Madam Grump" which I've passed on to Murphy's owner. I'm still open to all suggestions, although I'm very much into health in both my breeds (the other is Dalmatians, prone to deafness, uric acid problems and skin problems - and they tell me hip and elbow dysplasia, tho' no one I know has had a problem) I also believe that we must try to make informed decisions when breeding, or we could finish up with so few so-called suitable members of breeding stock that we would risk bringing to the surface other health problems which had so far been suppressed due to the rather larger breeding (and gene) pool.

    As you say it's a difficult call and we already sit with a relatively small Cavalier gene pool in this country. Oh, to have a crystal ball!

    Regards
    Dorothy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Benoni, 32km east of Johannesburg, Tvl, South Africa
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Hello Sheena - didn't read this before replying to Alison; that is rather interesting. Would that mean that a grommet was not indicated? (Not that it has been suggested, just thinking out of the box and maybe totally off track).

    Again, can I ask about inheritance? So often, in my experience, things happen "out of the blue" - just SO easy for a doctor or vet to assume it's inherited. Take my own personal case - teenager, diagnosed by school doctor with "inherited" scoliosis of the spine and booked for an op where the intention was to remove part of my femur and use it as a sort of brace in my back. My parents refused (thank goodness in those days, before political correctness would have over-ruled them). In the event as an adult (when I started to wear trousers, forbidden when at home by my very conventional parents as young ladies did NOT wear male garments), I discovered I had to take the hem up on the right leg of each - as that leg was shorter by half an inch than the other one. Nothing whatsoever inherited about it! But that was what caused my so-called "inherited" scoliosis. So perhaps I am a little bit wary about various diagnoses in my dogs. I suppose you could say that I am now a bit cynical.

    In the meantime, I will read as much as I can, and thank you so much for the informative articles.

    Kind regards

    Dorothy

  8. #8

    Default

    I think at the end of the day it's going to have to be your call - it's a hard row to hoe as a breeder, there are no easy fixes for any of these things. We've been lucky with the DE/CC test over recent years - would that more might be found.

    On a different note, but possibly apposite, are you permitted AI breedings in SA? or would that be prohibitively expensive/difficult?
    Sheena Stevens

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Benoni, 32km east of Johannesburg, Tvl, South Africa
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Yes, we've been doing AIs for many years now. Just have to fill in the correct forms for KUSA. But what I think is a bit silly is that even if the two dogs are standing side by side and the vet takes it from the dog and immediately injects it into the bitch (who wants to kill the dog instead of doing the right thing), you still have to "prove" it's an AI - I actually wonder how many people quietly overlook that bit. Do you have to do the same in UK?

  10. #10

    Default

    I can't speak for the UK but we do AI in France. I went to a conference on reproduction some while ago, and wish I could remember the statistics or find my notes! I do remember that AI using fresh semen had the same success rate as normal mating, fresh chilled (4 days at 4C maximum) a little less and frozen a little less again We were shown a photo of a litter of about 6 Beagle puppies born from frozen semen that was over 20 years old.

    A friend had a bitch mated and the dog owner was paranoid about infection so it was an artificial insemination at the vets and he said, as both dog and bitch were present and he’d checked their ID, he didn’t see any point in declaring that it was insemination by AI!

    I have been told by a friend that there is a straw of semen from a certain dog at the Maison d’Alfort veterinary school for my use. I’m a bit hesitant as the dog in question, though gorgeous, died at a youngish age – 10, I think, and too long ago to comply with the current health protocols. He was born in 1998 I have no idea how much storage has been paid for: I think you buy a certain amount of time when the semen is collected.

    Jane
    Last edited by Janelise; 08-28-2016 at 06:26 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •