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Thread: Dog Politics

  1. #1
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    Default Dog Politics

    It's been a long time since I have posted but I was talking/debating with boyfriend and need some help from breeders. I know this is a U.K. Forum but there are some US breeders on here and Rod might know more information.

    The argument came up because I read something saying that Lancaster country is the puppy mill capital of America. He grew up near there and this is a largely Amish area in Pennsylvania. He was asking what technically is a puppy mill. I explained importance of parent clubs etc. among other things.

    ***I regretted posting this because I've had my fill of human politics but basically he was saying we need more laws which I disagree with for several reasons. He also does not like pure breed dogs since he grew up with a German Shepherd. He tries to say Elton is not really a cavalier but I big dog in a little body. He jokes around but I just settled the argument.

    Deal breaker... cavaliers come with me .
    Last edited by ellabella; 03-27-2017 at 11:20 PM.
    Anne Singleton
    Proud owner of my munchkin Elton (blenheim) and
    angel ella who lives in my heart forever
    Charlotte NC

  2. #2
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    Ok. I think I now remember why. http://www.akc.org/government-relati...dog-ownership/

    It was a state law and registering as a "commercial breeder".
    Last edited by ellabella; 03-27-2017 at 11:49 PM. Reason: Posted old link
    Anne Singleton
    Proud owner of my munchkin Elton (blenheim) and
    angel ella who lives in my heart forever
    Charlotte NC

  3. #3

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    Hi Anne

    Surely a puppy mill (Puppy farm in the UK) is somewhere;
    • where the person breeds solely to sell them like live stock
    • where the dogs are kept outside of the house, even if they are in another building/outhouse
    • where the dogs have no contact or relationship with the owner other than food/water.



    A Back yard breeder (BYB) being a small scale version of that, perhaps with the breed or multiple breeds actually being kept in the house (even if they are kept to one room) due to no external buildings or land.

    I don't understand the link between German Shepherd and pure breeds?

    And I think there should be laws closing down any place that breeds wholesale for the sake of profit, even if that is some KC or AKC member who owns a Crufts champion.

    Would be interesting to know the figure of shelter dogs in the USA, and how many stray are PTS every year. The UK figure of stray dogs being PTS has finally started to fall, and genuine rescue centres seem to have less dogs in them - perhaps in part due to a so called Rescue in Dorset having to sign a Letter of agreement with Trading Standards in 2016 and HM Government starting to address the number of dogs being shipped in from Ireland
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    Mark, and my Blen - Lexie DOB 7/07/11, and my B/T - Katie DOB 01/12/12

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Ellis View Post
    Hi Anne

    Surely a puppy mill (Puppy farm in the UK) is somewhere;
    • where the person breeds solely to sell them like live stock
    • where the dogs are kept outside of the house, even if they are in another building/outhouse
    • where the dogs have no contact or relationship with the owner other than food/water.



    A Back yard breeder (BYB) being a small scale version of that, perhaps with the breed or multiple breeds actually being kept in the house (even if they are kept to one room) due to no external buildings or land.

    I don't understand the link between German Shepherd and pure breeds?

    And I think there should be laws closing down any place that breeds wholesale for the sake of profit, even if that is some KC or AKC member who owns a Crufts champion.

    Would be interesting to know the figure of shelter dogs in the USA, and how many stray are PTS every year. The UK figure of stray dogs being PTS has finally started to fall, and genuine rescue centres seem to have less dogs in them - perhaps in part due to a so called Rescue in Dorset having to sign a Letter of agreement with Trading Standards in 2016 and HM Government starting to address the number of dogs being shipped in from Ireland
    Hey Mark

    I guess the German Shepherd had hip issues and this goes into the whole breeding dogs for show issue which I wanted to stay away from and health issues. He always talks about how much has changed over the look of the German Shepherd in dogs shows compared to the past.

    I found what I was trying to remember which is exactly why I posted separate thread with link about why it was opposed. Really would not stop "puppy mills" and would hurt small breeders, hobbyists etc. I think show breeders can co own dogs so 11 females even if they are not breeding or making a profit could be feasible. Breeders would know more but this particular bill (which I have to see if it passed) was what I heard some breeders talk about at a regional show.

    "Defines a “commercial breeder” based solely on ownership of multiple animals. AKC believes that regulation as a commercial breeder should be based on actual commercial activity (sales) rather than ownership of multiple dogs. The definition would include individuals who own 11 or more female dogs over the age of 6 months. It only includes those dogs “kept primarily for the purpose of breeding”, but this would be difficult for law enforcement to determine and enforce."

    I will have to look at those statistics about dogs being PTS. I volunteered for the Humane Society of Charlotte (not to be confused with the HSUS!) and northern states have less dogs in shelters and actually will come south to get dogs (all breeds, mixed etc). Sometimes there is transportation to certain places. California has a large amount of chihuahuas in shelters so they will work with other states etc. This is a no kill shelter and I am not at home but through educating the public, outreach, and low cost spay/neuter clinics, the numbers of dogs in surrounding counties have decreased. I can look that up but there are a lot of pit mixes I notice.

    What my boyfriend said was that his grandmother would comment about how many dogs are transported from the South any breed. I started following cavalier rescue pages and noticed more and more close to where he is from. Seems like there is an Amish Puppy Mill project so i found it was an old article dated in 2009.
    Last edited by ellabella; 03-28-2017 at 01:25 AM.
    Anne Singleton
    Proud owner of my munchkin Elton (blenheim) and
    angel ella who lives in my heart forever
    Charlotte NC

  5. #5

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    My vet told me of his time in Hong Kong, where he did a few voluntary tours. Dogs being shipped from puppy farms near Sydney to Hong Kong, with a number of them not making the journey.


    I see that blog dates back to 2015. Do you have a link to a recent document on it?

    Re the German Shepherd. I'd have to agree that the KC and AKC breed standards have destroyed German Shepherds. How KC can justify that abomination winning Crufts in 2016 is beyond me. It depicts everything that is wrong with KC.

    1e1c.jpg

    Here's a nice video from 2016 of the RAF service German Shepherd, and how all German Shepherds should look.

    Last edited by Mark Ellis; 03-28-2017 at 11:20 AM.
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    Mark, and my Blen - Lexie DOB 7/07/11, and my B/T - Katie DOB 01/12/12

  6. #6

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    That's the sort of GSD I like, my mother's was like that and he came from 1960's show stock: his father was a champion and a grandfather had been BOB at Crufts. Current French legislation, trying to cut down on puppy farms, is that anyone who sells puppies from more than one litter in a January to December year must be registered as professional, whether the dogs are pedigree or mongrel. One may breed and sell one litter of pedigree puppies without needing to register, but then the parents absolutely have to be pedigree and the litter registered. I'm no longer "professional" but it's a very long time since I bred more than one litter in a year. It was actually to my advantage to be professional as my losses were offset against our combined income (Tom's pension), so we paid less income tax, but after he died and I had a spell with no income at all the situation changed a bit as I still had to pay an accountant to prepare my income declaration so I was paying out more than I was getting in and a very nice woman at the ministry of Agriculture suggested I work out when would be he best date for me to have stopped being professional and she arranged everything with the tax office for me. I am still registered as a dog breeder under the rules of sanitation etc. and am liable to be inspected at any time, but am no longer obliged to declare my income or losses

    Jane

  7. #7

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    he was a lovely dog

    Jane
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8

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    We owned a German bred German shepherd in the 1950s, - my father was stationed there during/after the and got him as he really missed his border collie he'd had to leave at home. He was a proper dog shaped dog with a lovely temperament, and the ones I used to see at our dog training classes in the 1980s were normal too, nothing like that appalling abomination at Crufts! I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw what they'd done to this beautiful breed! I really can't understand why they breed for something that looks so deforrmed...

    Rosemary

  9. #9
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    Default

    Not only do they look deformed, I'm certain it's why they have such a high incidence of severe hip dysplasia. When my eldest brother got married in 1972 the Alsatian, as it was then known, was his Singaporean wife's choice of a wedding present - and Atlas looked like a dog, not a stylised ornament. Why, oh why, do we have to follow the FCI so closely? They could have gone their own way and we could have gone ours, even if we'd been obliged to continue with the name Alsatian. Just hope they don't do this to any other breed in the name of fashion! They must have changed the breed standard substantially.

  10. #10

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    6 breeds that have changed includes;

    Bull Terrier, Chinese Shar Pei, Chow Chow, English Bulldog, German Shepherd, Neapolitan Mastiff.

    Details and pictures here - iheartdogs.com 6-dog-breeds-that-have-changed-significantly-over-time
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    Mark, and my Blen - Lexie DOB 7/07/11, and my B/T - Katie DOB 01/12/12

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