Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Puppy Strangles aka Juvenile Pyoderma

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Benoni, 32km east of Johannesburg, Tvl, South Africa
    Posts
    91

    Default Puppy Strangles aka Juvenile Pyoderma

    A Cavalier puppy who went to his new home yesterday afternoon has been diagnosed with possible puppy strangles. His new owner, a doctor, noticed what appeared to be a fungal infection in one eye. Initially I was mortified that I had noticed nothing until she pointed it out, however I DO know that strangles can manifest extremely rapidly - in a matter of minutes sometimes. Both eyelids of both eyes were affected.

    When I heard the diagnosis I posted to a forum I'm on and found one of the replies I received to be of particular interest. The person concerned has had a case which occurred less than a week after the puppy had Nobivac with Lepto in it. She then heard of another long-time breeder who also had a case after giving the same vaccine. The second breeder had heard of yet another breeder who had his first case of puppy strangles soon after giving a vaccine with Lepto in it. The conjecture is that *maybe* the Lepto vaccine compromises the puppy's ability to fight off puppy strangles.

    As the only other possible case I know of was my nine-week old Dalmatian puppy, eighteen years ago, I know very little about this. The vet only considered pyoderma as a possibility, and since Wendy was much better four days later after being given Synulox it is likely that it was not that after all.

    In both my possible cases the puppy had had its first vaccination four weeks previously. Our vaccinations do not routinely contain Lepto as it does not occur here, only down on the Cape south coast in a 5-km wide band for some 20 to 30 miles. I have checked back on vaccination certificates and none of the vaccines given to any of my dogs have ever contained Lepto, however I thought that "Mary"s observations might be of interest to forum members since the Lepto issue has come up before.

    In the meantime, have any of you had any experience of puppy strangles? If so, could you recount your experience. From what I've checked on the internet the jury seems to be out on whether there's a genetic component.

    Dorothy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Benoni, 32km east of Johannesburg, Tvl, South Africa
    Posts
    91

    Default

    Well, I assume that since I had no replies none of you has come across this condition. I thought I'd update you. Twelve days after the vet initially seeing Billy and treating him in the meantime for possible demodex in the eyebrows, she has finally decided that he does indeed have puppy strangles - in the meantime he could have died from it! Hopefully now she will have put him on the treatment which his new owner was demanding for the last week. Put quite simply - Prednisone. Treatment will now take much longer due to the delay. Why are there some vets who prefer to err on the side of caution instead of listening to the specialised knowledge accumulated by experienced breeders?

  3. #3

    Default

    II admit I'd never heard of puppy strangles! But in answer to your question about vets, there are some who seem to think that their education is more important than practical experience. I’m lucky in that the vets I use do listen – but I did start using them on recommendation from our neighbours with the boarding kennel. Once I was sitting in a waiting room and a client came out of a consultation room still talking with the vet. It was clear that her dog was suffering from separation anxiety and after a few minutes I said “excuse me, I couldn’t help but overhear your conversation, have you thought of trying a Kong type toy that you can put biscuits in for the dog to play with and try to get the biscuits out while you’re out?” The vet grinned and said to her client “What a good idea! I don’t know why I didn’t ask Mme Naylor if she had any ideas when I saw her there, she’s a breeder!” Than thanked me and I told the client where one could buy Kongs.

    I had a bad experience in the UK when my regular vet was ill and I had puppies whose dew claws I wanted removed – I don’ do that anymore. The locum produced a pair of sharp scissors and knowing Mr S used blunt ones to crush the blood vessels and virtually prevent bleeding I said “They’re not the right ones!” and she almost snapped at me, “I’m doing the job” and of course they bled horribly and one got a bit infected. When I told the proper vet how this puppy had an infection he sighed and said “it is increasingly hard to find a locum with any common sense; if I do I’ll employ them permanently. They come out of University thinking they know it all” A bit later he did find one young woman who was just right and she stayed for a year or two before going off to a more salubrious area: his surgery was in a rather rough area. Once I was there and saw her and noticed an enormous jar of piperazine tablets on the table behind her and said “That is a huge amount of worming tablets” and she laughed and said “I get people bring in a pot-bellied puppy and I ask if they’ve been wormed and they shrug their shoulders and say “Ugh????” with such a perfect imitation of a certain type of Chav that I couldn’t help but laugh. Mr S, the vet, had a very good reputation and there were “show” people who’d travel miles to him rather than their local vets. I’d been recommend him by a show breeder when I’d moved house, although he wasn’t by any way the closest. “No bedside manner, “ they told me, “but very competent” This also meant he would refuse to treat farm animals as he said he was too out of practice and so would refer anyone with a pig, goat or sheep to a big agricultural practice in the region. When one of my snakes had mouth rot he was willing to listen when I told him he antibiotic I knew, from reading the Herpetological society newsletter, had been successful with this species but was very anxious about the correct dose as she was a hatchling about ten inches long and weighing about 2 ounces. He also gave her an injection of vitamin B12 for an appetite stimulant as she wasn’t eating – without her tongue to smell she didn’t know there was food, so we had to force feed her for a while. She recovered well and her tongue regenerated. The first time she ate of her own accord I phoned him to let him know and he was quite pleased: he’d treated tortoises and some other reptiles but she was the first snake. Despite his lack of bedside manner he did hva e a”photo corner” for photos of the animals he’d treated and liked it when we took a photo of one of my ruby Cavaliers sitting on eh paws of anoether of his client’s Harlequin Great Dane. We went to ringcraft classes together and Serena and Reeko had made friends.

    Jane

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    2,047
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    I think most of us have had at least one 'unfortunate' experience with a vet, as you say, often young and just out of vet. school.

    Mine was when I insisted my local vet referred Holly P back to the Ophthalmic Referral Vet because she had proved allergic to the standard dry eye treatments, with the visiting ophthalmic practice vet unsuccessfully making her a serum from plasma. By then my poor little mite was screaming with pain every time I went near her and the GP vet was recommending removal of the bad eye and forecasting the other would have to go within the foreseeable future.

    Nil desperandum is my signature word so I was having none of this and insisted on expert opinion, but needed a second referral to get it from the right vet. R reluctantly agreed, so off we went the next day to Solihull and came back with a cocktail of several ointments and pain killers usually prescribed for humans and not licenced for use on animals. In my ignorance I went back to the vet on the way home, fortunately asking my very good friend 'Ravenous' to drive me. I gave the prescription to the receptionist to take into our vet because it was late and the pharmacist nurse had gone home. R called me in and was very scathing about the referral vet, saying that he had never heard of these things being used for dogs, that it was heavy handed and that me, the fool, had been easily parted from her money.

    I completely lost my temper and used several very unladylike words to say what I thought about veterinary ignorance. I asked whether he could obtain these items or not and R point blank refused and got out his diary to book Holly into surgery to excise the eye, saying he would refuse to treat her if I did not have this done. I was so angry that I genuinely at that moment wanted to punch that vet in the eye to see how he liked it, but Ravenous had sussed out what was going on, come into the surgery and grabbed me from behind at just the right moment. He ignored the vet, turned me towards the door and ordered me back into the van to go to the out of hours chemist to get the prescription dispensed.

    Thank goodness for my dear friend who knew just what to do and where to go to get what Holly so badly needed. A few days later I spoke to the practice manager at the surgery and told her I point blankly refused to ever see R the vet ever again, which she made a note of. To my dismay when Holly was recovering and was back to the local vet for a check up R was the vet who called us in. I was ready to deal with the young upstart with contempt and cold disdain at this point, because of course I realised I should not loose my temper again. To R's credit, as soon as he shut the surgery door R held out his hand and said he realised how wrong he had been and how sorry he was to have behaved in that way. We shook hands and agreed to make a fresh start and R was genuinely pleased to see the vast improvement the new ointments had made.

    R's parents eventually bought R the senior partnership in the practice, which has 2 surgeries a few miles apart. He by now was taking great interest in Holly's rare condition and was always pleased to follow her progress, to the extent that when he was working at the other surgery he always left instructions to be texted when I arrived at the original one with Holly. He moved on to a bigger and more advanced practice about 3 years ago, but we always exchange cards at Christmas and there is always a gift voucher in R's for me to get Holly something nice from him.

    These days I have a designated partner at the same practice who sees Holly whenever I bring her in. When I need a prescription for her CC/DE or am not sure about any aspect of it, this vet will 'phone the ophthalmic referral vet for advice. He knows her full history and has on file on screen all published information about the condition, which is how it should be.
    Warmest wishes
    Flo

  5. #5

    Default

    Flo, that was good to read: it seemed you did a lot to educate R!

    Jane

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Benoni, 32km east of Johannesburg, Tvl, South Africa
    Posts
    91

    Default

    Bonjour Jane

    Thanks for your answer. I do realise it’s rare, as I hope most auto-immune diseases are, that’s why I need more information. I’ve had varying responses from mails directed to various people.

    Some have related it to leptospirosis vaccination but we don’t use that here. Others believe it to be genetic due to their own experiences. I’ve been in touch with Animal Health Trust in Newmarket and they feel the cause remains unclear, however they did advise me to consult with a veterinary dermatology specialist which I’m trying to do.

    I think my worst experience was with one of the partners at my vet. My girl bumped herself coming out of her crate at a show; she was away from home in the Cape with her breeder. By the time the breeder got back to her own home in the Orange Free State after the weekend away Wendy had a nice lump on her side. The breeder’s vet in Bethlehem didn’t consider it urgent and suggested seeing her own vet once she got home to the Transvaal. So I took her down and as I said, saw one of the partners, Dr T. He promptly hospitalised her and evidently inserted a hollow needle to drain the fluid. Within a couple of days it had not only refilled, but was twice the size. Back to the vet, another draining procedure and it swelled even more. After a third draining, it swelled to the size of half a rugby ball - literally. Back again and he decided to put a seton it, saying that it might look peculiar but worked surprisingly well – did it, heck! And he cut through the lump and removed a large piece of skin, explaining that as he knew she was a show dog and he had had to cut through a spot he had removed the entire spot so that there wasn’t a straight line there!!! The resultant swelling was enormous and there was this really unhygienic looking piece of knotted bandage through two holes in the swelling.

    A fellow exhibitor encouraged me to go and see a specialist, Professor G who was in private practice, saying he had fixed her girl’s lump after months of being unable to show her. When I asked Dr T for a referral letter he was extremely reluctant to give me one and even when he’d finally given it to me when I stood my ground, he did his best to dissuade me from going. I was determined to go anyway and got an appointment. When we took Wendy through, I gave the letter to Prof.G and mentioned that Dr.T didn’t want me to come and had given me the letter under duress so I didn’t know what was in it; he read the letter, looked at Wendy, still with the grubby seton in the huge swelling and commented “I’m not surprised he didn’t want me to see this.” And as you know, they just NEVER comment negatively to clients on their colleagues. That told me a lot. And after several tests, including on individual hairs, Prof.G gave me a homeopathic remedy (he does conventional as well as a number of holistic remedies), cheap-as-chips, and on our follow-up a week later, the lump was just about gone – never to return.

    Anyway, Dr T who owns the practice since the death of his partners, no longer practises, though his youngest son is one of my vets and a jolly good one too and doesn’t hesitate to say “I’m going to call Dr... because I’m not very good at this” – now that, I can respect. I remember him telling me a few months ago when I went to fetch Harriet’s medicine for Diabetes insipidus (incidentally, also only for humans!) “When we were students we thought that was something you only saw in textbooks, and now I’ve got one in my own practice!” And funny enough, when I saw the newly-employed young vet (they’re all employees now, not partners) she told me that when she was interviewed they told her about two or three VERY IMPORTANT clients....and I was one of them! “I’ve been told so much about you” she said! So I guess they’ll make sure I’m treated with kid gloves in future.

    I have to say, too, that I was quite impressed to get a phone call one night from a vet in Belfast which is a small platteland town about 250km from here. I was secretary of the Dalmatian Club and the vet wanted me to tell him all I could about deafness in Dalmatians because he had a client with one which seemed to be deaf and it was something he had not learnt about.

    Dorothy

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •