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Thread: Purebred Pedigree vs. Breed Standard

  1. #11
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    From my perspective why would you want to cross a Cavalier with anything else. Hasn't it got enough health problems of its own without adding more to the mix?

    It's taken me 20 years to get to the stage where I can make informed breeding decisions based on the dogs that I know or have seen. Even then I don't always get it right. I simply don't have another 20 years in me to learn another breed.
    Bridgette Evans
    Svena CKCS

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by bridgette View Post
    From my perspective why would you want to cross a Cavalier with anything else. Hasn't it got enough health problems of its own without adding more to the mix?

    It's taken me 20 years to get to the stage where I can make informed breeding decisions based on the dogs that I know or have seen. Even then I don't always get it right. I simply don't have another 20 years in me to learn another breed.
    I appreciate the foreseeable problems. But I was wondering why purebred matings of cavaliers are required, considering the breed's purpose at the time of its creation in the 1920s.
    Rod Russell

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    ... As long as the dog conforms as close to the breed standard as possible, no one will know what is behind the pedigree other than the breeder.
    I disagree, at least as far as AKC is concerned, and I would think the UK Kennel Club, too.
    Rod Russell

  4. #14
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    Perhaps the initial reason was to breed for looks back then but I certainly would imagine that Roswell Eldridge also took into account their sweet, adorable temperament.They have been bred for many years to serve as COMPANION DOGS- IE "COMFORTER SPANIELS" starting with aristocracy. That is their purpose just as many other toys have been bred for. Even though cavaliers may rarily be used in hunting they do retain as some of their hunting instincts. Hence a spaniel in a smaller package.

    As far as pedigrees go I would not breed to a dog who's pedigree I DID NOT KNOW OR SEE." Most stud dogs have their pedigrees readily accessible on the internet. So in answer to that question I would think EVERYONE WOULD KNOW."

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by keekycat View Post
    ... So in answer to that question I would think EVERYONE WOULD KNOW."
    But my initial question implies: what difference does it make whether everyone knows or not, as long as the mating produces dogs that meet the cavalier breed standard?
    Rod Russell

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by keekycat View Post
    So in answer to that question I would think EVERYONE WOULD KNOW."
    I agree that everyone would know that looked the pedigree up. I am more just saying, if you had an out crossed dog back in the pedigree somewhere, and now you are showing a dog that conforms just as close to the breed standard as all the other "pure" Cavaliers in the ring, no one would know just by looking at the dog.. as long as that breeder were to be removing the ones that did not conform to the standard from the breeding program.

    I am not saying outcrossing should be done however, because of the risk of introducing more health ailments than we already must deal with. Plus, even that dog that came from an outcrossed line conformed to the standard so great, he still carries the DNA of that outcrossed dog and will still always have a much higher chance of producing pups that do not conform.
    Alisha
    &
    Coco

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    ... I am not saying outcrossing should be done however, because of the risk of introducing more health ailments than we already must deal with. ...
    I have not read any research on that risk.
    Rod Russell

  8. #18
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    I think it is common sense, no research is needed. If this breed has this problem, that breed has that problem, mix them both and risk all the problems in the offspring.
    Alisha
    &
    Coco

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    I think it is common sense, no research is needed. If this breed has this problem, that breed has that problem, mix them both and risk all the problems in the offspring.
    If that type of genetic disorder makes common sense, then it likewise would make common sense that to mate the same breed together would double-up the risk of its genetic problems in the offspring.

    I often am surprised at how small a role common sense seems to play in the expression of genetic disorders. Darwin's theory of the origin of species was based upon his circa 1859 common sense, and yet thus far neither he nor anyone since has found any evidence of that form of macroevolution.
    Rod Russell

  10. Default

    New to the forum, but as a non breeder I do find this quite an interesting question Rod. As I understand it the 'Breed Standard' for many breeds has changed (in some cases almost beyond recognition) and even to a point where assisted breeding and CS birth is required. With that in mind, you have to view 'breed standard' as something that is liquid rather than fixed at an point in time.

    Conforming to 'Breed Standard' could effectively be conforming to something that can change over time and possibly radically depending upon the fashionable view. I accept that in terms of the Cavalier that the standard has not changed dramatically.

    Personally I am not against the principle of very carefully selected out crossing, with a view to improving the health of the breed and assuming that the temperament, look and accepted standard of the breed is maintained. If the result of careful out crossing were to produce a cavalier (in every sense of the word) other than a historic paper record that says a generation or two were subject to out cross and if the result through further breeding was to produce a consistent standard of offspring that continued to reflect the breed, but introduced the possibility of eliminated certain undesirable health traits, then to be honest I don't see the problem.

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