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Thread: Ignorance of some people

  1. #21

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    "But every owner that I have spoken to who has had the dog neutered late in life for medical reasons wishes that they had done the operation years before - due to the personality change. "

    Hi Mark,

    I'm afraid that I don't agree with you here: the only one I regretted was a dog I had castrated and I wish I hadn't. His personality didn't change, but his coat did. The reason we had him castrated was that he wasn’t a really good Cavalier (we’d bought him, but he didn’t live up to his early promise!) so not for stud use, but also every time we had a bitch in season he’d stop eating and we thought it would be better for him not to have that frustration.

    However, the bitches that I've had spayed at a later age have had neither coat nor personality changes: I am talking six years or older, and they weren't for pressing medical reasons. Basically, after having had had two who had pyometra I realised it was sensible to spay after their last litter to prevent the risk of future pyos. There are people who consider that drastic, but I think it sensible.

    Incidentally, my parents’ dogs, all males and mostly mongrels except the German Shepherd, were not castrated and never caused any problems. They were well trained and socialised at obedience classes. All our cats were either castrated or spayed at about a year of age. Tom cats certainly calm down after castration, but then they are a very different species. My mother’s last two dogs were castrated, but they both came from rescue centres.

    On the subject of mating: in the same way that a bitch may constantly reject one puppy, probably because her instinct tells her there is something wrong with it, maybe other animals reject partners because they have an instinct we can’t understand. I’m sure we’ve mostly seen the wildlife programmes on television where a female will reject one male but accept another within minutes.

    Jane

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janelise View Post
    Hi Mark,

    I'm afraid that I don't agree with you here: ...
    Jane
    That is my experience in a world of pets, and bear in mind that I walk my dogs in well populated areas - and I am talking all breeds, not just cavaliers.

    I can understand show people not wanting to have their dogs done because of the coat, etc.

    And I know a number of owners who think that their complete dog is well behaved whilst it's sniffing around and mauling other people's dogs and weeing on the other owner's boots.
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  3. #23
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    Because of lucky escapes with bitches having ripe pyos. I now spay any bitch not required for breeding. Holly came through the procedure with flying colours 3 months after the first season. She is now 3 1/2 and has shown no ill effects whatsoever.

    I called it a day for the breeding stakes with Bubbles a year ago when she was getting on for 5 years old. She has become a very sweet and loving girl, with a nice expression in her eyes that she didn't have before. Before the spay her coat had been very thin and barely noticeable, now she has feathering and looks very nice.

    On the subject of mating: in the same way that a bitch may constantly reject one puppy, probably because her instinct tells her there is something wrong with it, maybe other animals reject partners because they have an instinct we can’t understand. I’m sure we’ve mostly seen the wildlife programmes on television where a female will reject one male but accept another within minutes.

    Several years ago Jane I had a really good foundation bitch and my own stud, who she had grown up with. After she had had two nice litters from him it was time to go out to stud, so, things being different then, it was considered good to use her grandfather. It was a perfect mating, but no pregnancy. The following season I decided on an outcross, so took her to a well proved boy on the day indicated by pre-mate testing. Again, she welcomed the mating but no pregnancy resulted. The following season I let her seduce my own dog and she produced a lovely litter.

    This could be what is also known as having your cake and eating it


    Warmest wishes
    Flo

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madam Grump View Post
    Well, far be it from me to suggest anything at all, but if you really think Molly Coaker wasn't capable of doing that then perhaps you should reconsider. And fairly swiftly. That dog simply did not want to mate my bitch.
    In the equine community, they have ways to deal with that kind of reluctance. It would seem a little barbaric to use them with dogs, but they do work.
    Rod Russell

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Ellis View Post
    ... I can understand show people not wanting to have their dogs done because of the coat, etc.

    And I know a number of owners who think that their complete dog is well behaved whilst it's sniffing around and mauling other people's dogs and weeing on the other owner's boots.
    The coat is the least of the reasons to not neuter early. Healthwise, dogs need these organs to produce hormones which contribute to their immune systems. Those needs continue well past reaching adulthood. And if the dog's immune system is diagnosed as being compromised, then neutering at all, ever, could be risky to the dog's continued health.

    So, a simply worded sign that recommends neutering, without any privisos as to when and why, is not good advice, IMHO.
    Rod Russell

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by RodRussell View Post
    In the equine community, they have ways to deal with that kind of reluctance. It would seem a little barbaric to use them with dogs, but they do work.
    I don't think a twitch would work with dogs. but then they're nowhere near as big and powerful as horses.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Ellis View Post
    ... And let's face it, no pet owner is going to do the operation themselves, so will be following vet guidance. ...
    Most vets over here do not consider the long term health consequences of neutering. They seem to be willing to neuter if that is what the owner wants. They also think that annual injections of multiple vaccines will do no harm.
    Rod Russell

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by RodRussell View Post
    The coat is the least of the reasons to not neuter early. Healthwise, dogs need these organs to produce hormones which contribute to their immune systems. Those needs continue well past reaching adulthood. And if the dog's immune system is diagnosed as being compromised, then neutering at all, ever, could be risky to the dog's continued health.

    So, a simply worded sign that recommends neutering, without any privisos as to when and why, is not good advice, IMHO.
    For once Rod, I agree with you!!

  9. #29

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    USA vets are trained for neutering young. I think the first puppy visit the vet was asking about scheduling neuter. It just goes with controlling pet population. Personally I would much rather a vet push the early neuter than have an increase in dogs at the local shelter. Something my area struggles with.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodRussell View Post
    In the equine community, they have ways to deal with that kind of reluctance. It would seem a little barbaric to use them with dogs, but they do work.
    There are very simple ways to achieve it with dogs but in the UK they are not allowed by Then Kennel Club. That's why - I'm sure - Sheena walked away with her bitch unbred.
    Sue

    Susan Shidler
    AKC Breeder of Merit
    SevenWoods Cavaliers
    Mettawa, IL USA

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