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Thread: Trying to find out as much as possible about breeding!

  1. #1
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    Default Trying to find out as much as possible about breeding!

    Hi I have a little guy about 1 now and I've been thinking about breeding him. If his training goes well.. (he's being a little monster at the moment) I was going to get a bitch next year.. Obviously I have to wait until she's at least 2.5 so I would like to know all there is about breeding them..

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by JessicaLea View Post
    Hi I have a little guy about 1 now and I've been thinking about breeding him. If his training goes well.. (he's being a little monster at the moment) I was going to get a bitch next year.. Obviously I have to wait until she's at least 2.5 so I would like to know all there is about breeding them..
    JessicaLea, there really isn't all that much to it. The bitch needs to be in season, and the male needs to be intact. Lock 'em in a closet for a day, and let nature take its course.
    Rod Russell

  3. #3

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    Hi Jessica,

    Do you belong to any of the Cavalier clubs ? Here is a link to the main club web site
    http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/
    where you find a great deal of information.

    Before you breed from a Cavalier you really should have any health tests available carried out to ensure that both dog and bitch are free from any problems. Ideally it is helpful to know if the parents and other ancestors are free from, or late developers of, MVD. Currently there are DNA tests available for episodic falling and curly coat allied with dry eye; there are visual tests for eye problems; audible tests and, sometimes in the UK, ultrasounds for hearts; and MRI scans for SM/CM.

    Many of the clubs hold a heart and eye testing day at their shows: there was a recent announcement on this forum for one such.

    When you buy a bitch, let the breeder know that you are planning to breed. A decent breeder is going to want to know a very great deal about your dog before they will let one of their pups go for breeding purposes, so it would be necessary to have his health tests done before you look for a bitch puppy. It might be a good idea to show him to get an idea of how he matches up to the general standard.

    Where I live there is a system called “confirmation”, where a dog has to be assessed by a licenced judge for its breeds, when it’s adult, and if it’s OK it will get its final compete pedigree registration. If it isn’t, it can’t be bred from. Well, it could be, but its progeny couldn’t be registered! The point is to keep the quality of a breed reasonably high.

    Also, having an entire dog and bitch on the same premises is not always easy going, and when the bitch is in season you need to be VERY careful not to let them get together. Everyone in the household need to be VERY aware. I have had incidents where visitors have left doors or gates open; not necessarily when there have been bitches in season, but dogs have got out and some people seem incapable of understanding.

    I did have one such incident some six years ago and a puppy having her first season was mated. There were chidren visiting. They weren’t that young, but didn’t seem to realise that if she was in the front garden the dogs should not be let out into the back garden as one is capable of climbing fences, and a determined dog will do all he can to get to a bitch in season. I did take her to the vet and the pregnancy was terminated: in this country it is done three weeks after the mating, by hormone injection. The vet felt at least four embryos, the size of small peas, but in her life she only ever had two litters, one of two puppies and one of one. I always wonder whether this was due to that early interference with her reproductive system.

    Rod’s reply was probably because of the difference between the English and American languages: “breeding” is an American euphemism for “mating”.

    Jane

  4. #4
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    Thanks I will look into all of that depending on his training the next few months.. Another thing.. Apparently I can't register him as pedigree as he is chocolate all over with honey eyebrows and white patches.. Completely gorgeous but not recognised here apparently.. Is this true? I know in America there bred like that..

  5. #5

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    There is an American breeder called Susan Cochran who breeds Cavaliers for that colour, but I don't know of anyone else. There are only four KC recognised colours - blenheim, tricolour, ruby and black and tan, which is why he isn't KC registered (and which would have been done by his breeder were it possible). The colour is due to a recessive gene, so it does crop up occasionally, but it's been a long time since I've heard of any in the UK, and to be honest it makes me wonder whether your boy might not be a cross (not something you want to hear, I do appreciate).

    You might like to have a look at The Book of the Bitch, by Evans and White. While it isn't Cavalier related, it will give you a very good idea of what's involved in breeding and raising a litter. Jane has given you good advice too about the health tests it is a very good idea to have.
    Sheena Stevens

  6. #6

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    Hello Jessica,

    I am sorry, but you won’t be able to breed true Cavaliers from your fellow: you didn’t give his name!!!! Just love him as a pet.

    Unfortunately chocolate is not a recognised colour, and although there are people in the USA who breed chocolate Cavaliers, they cannot be registered there either. It is not a recognised colour anywhere in the World. It is possible that some are registered with one of the spurious American registers, like the United Kennel Club, whose sole purpose, it appears, is to provide a fake registry to take money from people but not give them pedigrees that are internationally recognised. There are people in the USA who think, but I have NO idea where they got the “information”, that chocolate was allowed until 1973. It never has been: just the four colours of Blenheim, Tricolour, Ruby and Black and Tan are permitted.

    In general, the people who do breed dogs like this; by which I mean dogs that are not to a breed standard; are like the people who cross different breeds to make so called “designer” dogs. They give them silly names like Cavapoo (Cavalier cross Poodle) etc. and frequently claim that these hybrids are healthier than pure bred dogs. While it is possible that first generation puppies may have hybrid vigour, it is also possible that they carry genes for the hereditary problems of both breeds as it’s not that likely that these breeders would have had any health tests carried out.

    I am very interested in your dog’s pedigree, if you have it, as in over thirty years I’ve never known of a chocolate to be produced in a litter owned by anyone I know. It is due to recessive colour genes, so both parents would need to be carriers, but the odds seem quite long and there is some uncertainty as to where this colour gene came from.

    If you can, read up on the early history about the re-creation of the Cavalier. The club web site does refer to a number of books. The four colours were chosen very specifically to echo those of the dogs in the paintings of the time of Charles II. There was at one time a woman in the UK who bred black Cavaliers, but her efforts came to nothing as very few people were interested in them. I do know that once in a while a black and white puppy will appear, lacking the tan to make it a tricolour. These pups usually go to “pet” homes.

    Incidentally, as a follow on to Rod’s advice about mating, most breeders would NOT do that: most supervise a mating as you can never tell what might happen. Sometimes the sweetest little bitch will decide she doesn’t like the dog and attack him; sometimes they can struggle to get away and really hurt the dog, and sometimes if there’s a long tie they can get bored and fidget, again not very nice for either. It is far better to have two people there, one to hold each dog. I have done a couple of matings alone: once I was at the stud dog’s house and just as the dogs tied he had to take a very important phone call so I sat there holding them both in position. It wasn’t comfortable.

    If you really do want to breed Cavaliers, look for a nice bitch from a good breeder and ask if they will mentor you. Sadly, well bred puppies are few and far between and I think you’d need to have your boy castrated before anyone would let you have one of their bitch puppies.

    Good luck,

    Jane

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the help.. I was afraid of that.. I may just get him done and get a girl anyway.. As where moving in with my boyfriend next year and he hates being alone with no one to play with.. I'll look into what information you've given me.. Thanks again.. His names jakey

  8. #8
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    I've just uploaded a picture of him to an album if you want to take a look

  9. #9

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    Definitely a Cavalier ... definitely a chocolate tricolour - the lighter eye and lighter nose pigment are the clues! He looks a lovely healthy boy ... interesting that the chocolate gene has resurfaced over here after all these years!
    Sheena Stevens

  10. #10
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    Yep he's my handsome little man I'm assuming that his colouring is the reason I got him so cheap then.. But never mind doing! Wouldn't change him for the world

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